We Buy Houses for Cash Review: Jeremy Brandt Interview | Real Estate Interest Rate Hike Meaning, Recession Business Marketing, & Downturn Advertising Strategy
Jeremy Brandt Interview 2022-06-16
[00:00:00] Joey Myers: Hello and welcome to the Lead Generation Strategies Podcast. This is your host Joey Myers from LeadGenerationSEOServices.com. With me today is Mr. Jeremy Brandt, did I say Brandt right?
[00:00:18] Jeremy Brandt: That's right. You got it.
[00:00:19] Joey Myers: That's right. He's out in Dallas- Fort Worth, cashoffer.com I think is the website.
[00:00:24] Jeremy Brandt: We've got a couple of different companies. Webuyhouses.com is probably the most well-known. 1- 800 cash offer is another one, certainly and fast home offers is our lead gen business.
[00:00:32] Joey Myers: Very cool. So, we'll talk a little bit more about that at the end, too for those that are going to be interested in some of the information, but I want to dig into today's news, we got the three-quarter rate hike and I know it doesn't directly affect the mortgage rates, but it indirectly affects the mortgage rates. So just kind of give me your thoughts on that coming.
How do you see the current interest rate hike affecting the real estate market?
[00:00:51] Jeremy Brandt: It quickly affects mortgage rates and, most people that provide mortgages are looking at where the rates are going and trying to get in front of them and raising rates in anticipation of some of these increases.
[00:01:01] Certainly it slows the overall housing market down. Every time there's a percentage increase in the rates, somebody can afford less of a house. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to not buy a house. It's just the dollar value of the house they can buy goes down by a certain amount for every percent increase.
[00:01:16] Which slows the economy down, which is, I think what they're trying to do a little bit with some of these rate changes.
[00:01:19] In the distressed property space where we are, it doesn't have a huge impact. People still have life situations where they need to sell their house quick, or they've got a house that needs a lot of repairs that they've inherited.
[00:01:30] They still don't want to deal with it. So, the interest rates don't impact that in a real major way. The biggest thing for investors usually with interest rate increases is if it takes a little bit longer to sell a house after they've fixed it up that can slow their business down. There's holding costs for investors in residential real estate investing.
[00:01:46] We've been doing this for a long time or through the boom and bust of 2008, and even some of the earlier cycles. I think we're well prepared for it, don't think it's going to be near the level of problems that we had in 2008.
[00:01:59] It's a very [00:02:00] different thing going on in the economy right now than then. But I think every business it's smart for them to think about how to manage through the ups and downs of their business and then the economy, the cycles, because they're going to happen. It's inevitable that there's up and down in tech, in real estate, in every industry that you're in.
[00:02:15] I've always learned a lot more about our business in the down cycles than in the up cycles. Everybody can win in the up cycle. It's easy. If you can throw a dart at a wall and hit a stock that's going up, doesn't make you a great stock picker.
[00:02:25] Same in business, if the market's going up like crazy, everybody's doing well, but you, your mentality as a business owner and as entrepreneurs tested in the down cycles and the decisions that you make and what you do
[00:02:34] Joey Myers: Yeah. Let's go into your background a little bit. You mentioned that you've been through a couple down cycles. When did you start in real estate, Jeremy?
When did you start in real estate?
[00:02:41] Jeremy Brandt: I started investing in real estate in 2000, really 1999. I got involved in real estate investing. I was in the tech world doing network engineering and a lot of kind of things with.com startups in the late nineties, which was a lot of fun and then I transitioned into house flipping here in the Dallas Fort Worth area.
[00:02:57] It was buying and selling houses really all over Texas, really fell in love with that. It was a lot of fun, really enjoyed it. But my passion really was technology and so invest the experience that I had and combined that with all the technology experience that I had, and we were really one of the first companies on the internet marketing towards distress home sales.
[00:03:13] There was a couple of companies that were coming online, Zillow wasn't around yet. There was a couple of real estate companies that were starting to put up webpages, but nobody was really marketing towards the motivated home seller space, which is what we specialize in.
[00:03:24] We were one of the first people doing that and just had people from all over the country, contacting us to sell their house and bought all the houses that we could in Texas and then started thinking about what do we do with all these houses in Florida and California and Oregon and Washington.
[00:03:37] I started calling investors and basically offering to sell them leads connect them with the home sellers, contacting us. That was very successful, so within a year or two we really transitioned entirely out of buying and selling houses as a company and moved into providing lead generation and marketing services for real estate investors.
[00:03:55] Now we probably have one of the largest lead gen companies in the US that generates motivated seller [00:04:00] leads for investors and sells those leads to investors on a paper lead basis.
[00:04:03] We're not an agency. We don't provide agency services. We don't do SEO. We don't do paid search on behalf of clients.
[00:04:08] We do all of that in house, and then we sell those leads to real estate investors and agents all over the country.
[00:04:14] Joey Myers: You mentioned we buy houses. So that was you guys. You guys started that?
You started We Buy Houses?
[00:04:17] Jeremy Brandt: Yeah, webuyhouses.com is a little bit different business. That's not so much lead gen that's like what's called a brand license.
[00:04:23] We licensed the brand out to investors all over the country. We have locally owned and operated offices that are branded we buy houses.com and their local market. They're buying and selling houses under the we buy houses.com brand, but they're locally owned and operated in running their own business.
[00:04:36] We're not doing it corporately like an open door, an offer pad, or Zillow offers before they shut that down. And so that we've had for, I think about 12 years really have seen it grown like crazy over the last three or four years. We're in about 120 or so cities across the United States, major markets all over the US.
[00:04:54] Pretty much every major city in the United States, we have a local office in that's buying renovating and selling, or a lot more now Airbnb or doing long term rentals with the properties.
[00:05:03] Joey Myers: Very cool. And then looking at some of the strategies that you said you've been through some of the down cycles and things like that. What is with what you've seen, what is your game plan? You don't have to go into details, but just general sense. What's you guysâ game plan going into this, we're thinking is going into a recession?
What is your game plan going into a looming recession?
[00:05:20] Jeremy Brandt: I think there's no there's no magic sauce to what companies should do in a recession.
[00:05:24] We don't have a secret plan that nobody else knows that's going to make us way more successful than everybody else. I think when you're going into a slower period in your business, you can call it a recession. You can call it something else and sometimes it's economy wide and sometimes it's just industry specific.
[00:05:37] In 08, when we went through that, the things that I really learned that have changed us a lot for how we operate now are careful with your cash, hoard your cash if you can. When you're going into an uncertain time, the more capital that you have, it allows you to be a lot nimbler.
[00:05:50] In 2008, every single one of our competitors went out of business. We were in this lead gen world when times get tough, everybody just closed shop and went and did something [00:06:00] else.
[00:06:00] We were able to downsize significantly, keep the doors open, keep going in a much smaller version of ourselves, but what that allowed a couple years later when the market started to come back, we were the only game in town for a couple of years before either the competitors started to come back, or people started new companies to come in and compete.
[00:06:19] That gave us a strong runway to grow the business before competition got fierce in our area.
[00:06:26] One of the things I tell business owners all the time is look at down cycles as a huge opportunity. If you can optimize your business, you can cut expenses. You can make sure that you're running lean and mean, you don't have too many employees for work to be done.
[00:06:38] You can run your business very efficiently. A down cycle is going to put out a business, those competitors that can't do that, or don't know how to do that. That can be positive for the competition in your industry. It gives you a little bit more breathing room and a little bit more runway when the economy starts to come back of being, one of the only players in your industry until competition heats up again.
[00:06:58] Although they're always painful, I like to look at them as a big opportunity. Throughout the years, Oftentimes the most wealth has been made in down cycles. In up cycles again, everybody, everything's going up in an up cycle. It's hard to lose money.
[00:07:11] Everybody's a genius for buying Bitcoin, everybody's a genius for buying apple, but in the down cycle, you must make tougher decisions, but if you're nimble and you're not scared in the down cycle, that's where the real wealth is made. For most people, they can make decisions and either, buy real estate or buy companies.
[00:07:27] Companies are distressed assets, just like real estate are distressed asset. If people are in different industries, thinking about buying your competitors, if your competitors are not running as efficiently as you are and a year from now might be a great opportunity to start buying the competitors in your industry because they're not making any money and they're having a tough time and they're thinking about doing something else.
[00:07:42] So there's a real big opportunity to take advantage of the down cycle so that, you can ride the wave on the way back up a lot better.
[00:07:48] Joey Myers: Is that one of the strategies you guys used when you were spreading out was more that acquisition, business acquisition, so taking or just more of the franchisee licensing type of thing?
How did using business acquisition and franchisee licensing as a business strategy work in growing your businesses?
[00:07:57] Jeremy Brandt: Yeah, we're not a franchise or We're a brand license [00:08:00] franchise. Franchises must follow a certain set of rules and we didn't want to have that much control, real estate investors are kind of Mavericks. They don't like to be told what to do.
[00:08:07] We wanted to have a lot looser although very strong relationship and very clear rules around ethics and these types of things, but a looser hold on our network of licensees so that they were free to run the business, how they wanted to, they didn't have to be a rental company.
[00:08:20] They didn't have to be a fix and flip company. They could do a lot of different things in the industry, and we would support them on the back end with the brand, the marketing and all the tools that come with that.
[00:08:27] We've done a lot of acquisitions over the years. I'm an entrepreneur. I love the art of the deal. I love buying and selling businesses. It's a lot of fun. I love the negotiation process. We've certainly done that over the years and really enjoyed it and been able to buy companies that were in the down cycle that people were coming out of four years of losing money in the business.
[00:08:43] They were just tired of it, and they had some great assets, but not the energy or time to ride out, the next five years to get them back to where they needed to be. We were able to buy some of those things and it's been very good for our business. The local offices that we have around the country, we don't acquire real estate investing companies.
[00:08:58] Most of what we buy is technology companies that have real estate related marketing or websites, or trademarks or different assets related to real estate that we can bring into fold into our business.
[00:09:08] All of our local offices, like I said, are independently operated. We don't acquire home buying companies. We have hundreds of those companies that are part of our network that are operating under our brand and buying houses and local markets all over the US.
[00:09:21] Joey Myers: Very cool. Yeah. That's important to know who, if you're going to be acquiring businesses, what kind of businesses you're going to acquire and like your extensive background in tech, that's a smart move.
[00:09:29] I think, it depends around the country. I talk to a lot of real estate people, and you got people in Arkansas are not going to be quite as savvy on the marketing side as like people in Southern California where you got production companies and, things like that.
[00:09:40] I think that's smart that you're strategic and it's not just buying, like you said, a buyer- sell agency, but it really looking into what's your goal, what's your goal in doing that. Awesome.
[00:09:49] Let's move into the marketing side. I know marketing changes depending on the market cycles and things like that. How has your marketing changed down versus up? Have you hit different [00:10:00] channels?
How has your marketing changed in a down versus up economy?
[00:10:00] Jeremy Brandt: We're a big national company. We market in just about every channel we do national TV commercials, radio spots certainly all digital platforms. We're marketing on Google, Bing social media that type of a thing.
[00:10:11] We're even in all the yellow page in the United States, we do old school kind of traditional marketing. Certainly, that's dwindling a lot, the volume goes down over time, but there's still a lot of value in some of those channels.
[00:10:19] Some of the biggest things that changes that we've seen over the years one just the cost being a tech guy, I was the guy that ran the pay click campaigns.
[00:10:27] In 2002 for our lead generation company and, it was 3 cents to get clicks back then and maybe, 40 cents to get a conversion or less. And it was just an amazing time to get a huge amount of value because the rest of the world hadn't figured out the value of these search engines yet and started bidding against, now we'll pay $30 for a click on some of these or more.
[00:10:45] Some of these real estate related keywords that are hypercompetitive, and in a lot of markets, you just have people with deep pockets and not a ton of marketing savvy. That puts companies in a difficult position like ours, sometimes where we must make money.
[00:10:57] Somebody that's got a million dollars to spend in advertising and hasn't quite figured out they're losing money on their advertising yet, is going to spend that million dollars and we just have to sit back a little bit and let them go through it because the joke about auctions, which online marketing is, the joke about auctions, if you win, you're the guy that thought the thing was worth more than anybody else in the world thought it was worth.
[00:11:15] Maybe that's not a good thing. We found ourselves in many cases having to sit on the sidelines and, not being able to be the number one bid position in Google search for our keywords, because they call it dumb money, but there's people pouring money into something that we know they're going to lose money on it.
[00:11:30] It's not going to be a profitable venture for them, but they must go test and figure it out. Or sometimes they don't test, and they just don't realize how much money they're pouring down the drain.
[00:11:37] There's been a lot of that coming to the digital marketing world. I think the other big struggle over the last couple years has been, although it's a good thing generally, it makes it more difficult for us is the focus on privacy and not being able to target people at as granular level as you used to be able to.
[00:11:56] Certainly, I'm a huge privacy advocate and we don't want big companies having our [00:12:00] data. Examples of we know the neighborhoods where there are good houses for real estate investors to buy, right? They're usually older neighborhoods with a lot of houses that are in disrepair.
[00:12:09] Due to privacy concerns, now on most of the digital platforms, you can't target a zip code. You must target a much larger area. That makes our advertising much less efficient because we know the zip code where these houses are that we want to buy, I can direct mail to them. I can have somebody walk a neighborhood but now you can't market to them digitally, which should be the most targeted and most direct form of advertising.
[00:12:30] It's artificial, right? It's only because of privacy concerns. It's not because of any technical limitation, but that forces us to advertise at a city or a county level, much less efficient we're advertising. Our ad is going to be seen by somebody with a $2 million mansion that we're never going to buy, but we must advertise to that person to get to the other people that we want.
[00:12:47] It'll be interesting to see how the privacy concerns play out with Apple and with Google and with Facebook, these different companies trying to balance creating efficiency for advertisers and letting them target the people that are most suited for their products versus the concerns of the consumer of which I'm one as well that we don't want other companies knowing everything about our lives and being able to target us so closely that it becomes creepy.
[00:13:09] Joey Myers: Exactly. It's funny when you were saying that about the prices going up and the dumb money thing, I remember I got into real estate about 2005. I got my real estate license. I worked for an investing company that was distressed properties, foreclosures, all that kind of stuff. As we were approaching more to 2008, 2006, 2007, things were hot and out at the auction buying housing cash.
[00:13:31] So I'd go out there as a proxy for the office and they were bidding these houses up. We had comps and everything and there was maybe 5% left. They were doing it because they figured when we fix it up and it's going to appraise, it's going to keep going up and which it did, 2008, that's when everything popped.
[00:13:45] It was just interesting because there were more and more people, it was just growing that were out there and we're bidding, like you said the auction, right? The guy that ends up winning thinks that he's smarter than the rest of 'them, were getting the best price than everybody else.
[00:13:55] With the advertising, same thing with you. I was really working hitting performance lab, [00:14:00] baseball hitting site, Facebook advertising. In four or five years, I got over a hundred thousand emails in that little niche, and it just it flipped, and they just started the amount per cost. You're right. Three, 4 cents, a click.
[00:14:11] I was getting 40 cents per email and then I would send them through a sales funnel and all that kind of stuff, and it was great and then suddenly, the market just turned, but I agree with you, you got a million-dollar budgets, marketing budgets, dumb money.
[00:14:22] They're just throwing it out there and it's making it worse. They're bidding up all the auction house prices for the rest, and nobody wins.
What marketing opportunities do you see in a down economy?
[00:14:27] Jeremy Brandt: To go back to your original point about what do you do in a down economy? That's one of the positives that I see of a little bit of a shift in the real estate market is that all the kind of pocket weekend warrior people that invest in real estate.
[00:14:42] Generally when the market starts to get a little bit tougher, they go find something else that's easier to do. It's been so easy to make money in real estate over the last four or five years. You just had everybody getting into it, kind of like the gold rush and very similar to 2005, 2006, 2007.
[00:14:57] It just became so easy to make money in real estate. There were seminars every other day, every hotel room had somebody pitching a real estate course, but when 08 happened, everybody that wasn't a full-time professional person that this was their job every day, they didn't have any other income, and this was their business, and they were running it like a business.
[00:15:14] They just disappeared and went and got jobs or went and did some other kind of marketing thing, or did some online stuff, and so we look forward to that happening in a lot of ways, because it clears the field of the people that are mucking up the advertising system and the efficient machine.
[00:15:27] That is an auction-based advertising system, but it's not efficient if you've got somebody in there that kind of doesn't know the rules. If you play poker, you like to play poker with people that are good poker players, because it challenges you and everybody knows how it works.
[00:15:39] If you play poker with somebody that doesn't know how to play poker at all, it's sometimes almost more difficult than playing with an experienced player because they're just going to do things that no experienced player would ever do, because they just don't know any better, and so you almost can't predict as much what's going to happen because of their naivete.
[00:15:57] We see that a lot in advertising online that a lot of people [00:16:00] just don't know what they don't know. They'll bid oh, sure, I'll pay a hundred dollars a click. That's a click as a lead. They don't know a lot of these things, but they've got $10,000 a month marketing budget for San Diego and they're just going to spend until they run out of money.
[00:16:10] Or get lucky and buy a house, and if they buy a house and make a lot of money, then they'll keep going and keep going. But it's highly inefficient because they haven't done all the work to optimize it. That to me is one of the pluses for our type of company in a slowdown is that it clears the deck a little bit of people that are just of pouring money into this because it's so easy to make money and to go look at something else for a little bit.
[00:16:27] Joey Myers: That's a good point. Really good point. The down markets, some people see it as a bad deal, but it's a great opportunity in many ways, if you're just a little bit more creative about it. Last thing before we get to some of your stuff, websites, things like that, offers maybe that you got.
[00:16:39] You mentioned some of the pay per stuff, right? The Google, the Facebooks, that kind of thing. What do you guys do on the content marketing side of things? Do you guys do anything special, unique?
What do you guys do on the content marketing side of things? Do you guys do anything special, unique?
[00:16:48] Jeremy Brandt: We don't do a huge amount of content marketing. Most of our advertising is really focused on a direct response to consumer.
[00:16:54] Although we have a great brand and I think we're probably one of the most well-known real estate investing companies in the country, in the investor world. On the consumer side of things, A consumer has a need in a point of time, they find us, and they connect with us, then we connect in with a local real estate investor.
[00:17:09] Certainly we write articles and, do SEO on everything and kind of build out some content, but it's not a huge part of our business. I have a background in SEO, huge believer in SEO, and we do a lot of it, but back when we first really got into this, there were a number of companies that came and competed with us that were selling leads and purely relied on SEO.
[00:17:26] You can see where this is going. They would undercut us on lead price because their cost of a lead was essentially free. We had this belief that the leads that come in through SEO are gravy. We love them because they're inexpensive, relatively. But we can't build the business around that.
[00:17:41] So we want it, we need it. We want to be out there, but we can't build the business around it. We must build the business around paid traffic because that's what's sustainable. If we can't make it where the work of paid traffic, we can never scale it. We saw several companies go out of business because they couldn't.
[00:17:54] As soon as Google made an algorithm change, their leads went from a thousand a month to zero or a [00:18:00] thousand a month to 10 and they couldn't afford to go do paid search because they were charging their clients way too little money for that lead because they were getting it for free.
[00:18:08] It lucked into one of those seams where you can really exploit it, make a lot of money for a short period of time until the market, or Google algorithms catch up with what you're doing, and you have to go pay for it. We do write articles and do some content marketing, but it's not a huge focus of our business.
[00:18:21] It's not a big part of what we do, we really focus on paid search, lead generation affiliate marketing and then, working with our investors to help them grow their businesses, we run conferences and, all that other kind of stuff as well, but that's not the focus of our business.
[00:18:34] Joey Myers: It's a good point. Not putting all your eggs in one basket. When I first got going on the hitting website, which was back in 2008, it was very much SEO oriented. It was email and SEO. I got to a point where, and this is what I tell people, is I got to a point where I had about 3,500 stale emails where I would gain maybe a couple and then I'd lose a couple, gain a couple, just wouldn't go beyond the 3,500.
[00:18:56] It wasn't until Facebook marketing. When I started paying to play that I went from the 3,500 to about 15K and then it was 25 K and then it was 40 K, and so that paid advertising is huge.
[00:19:08] I think people it's a great piece of advice is that you have a little bit other channels that you're working. We do the SEO thing, but it is for a company that hasn't done anything, it could take four to six months for traffic. . Now we do a little bit different of a thing.
[00:19:20] On the content side, where we blow up content into six different versions of it. Then we have a distribution network, like for 400 sites, news sites, things like that, and so then you add that PR side of it.
[00:19:29] Typically SEO is stay in step with Google. You mentioned those companies that all eggs in SEO basket, Google makes an algorithm change. Boom. They're trying to keep up with Google, the SEO people, but then you have the media on this side that Google tries to keep up with. The media is the big thing.
[00:19:44] The third the third-party sites that people trust. Then you got the media side, if you got a little bit of both, it's a little bit more sustainable on at least the Google side, at least be in one piece.
Whatâs your advice for a starting out solo entrepreneur?
[00:19:52] Jeremy Brandt: For sure. I don't know the typical size of the business of your audience, but when you're first starting out solo entrepreneur, you can't do everything because you just don't [00:20:00] have the bandwidth to do everything.
[00:20:01] Especially if you're a service provider, the basics of SEO and it's really not SEO as it is, making sure that your business name and address and phone numbers show correctly in the directories and the Google directories and those types of things, and starting to do that local search optimization so that when somebody's searching for a lawn care company or a painting company, or whatever your thing is at the local level, that you really show up there, that's super important.
[00:20:22] As you start to scale and get to a little bit larger company, Making sure that you're advertising, not just advertising, but you're doing marketing in all the different channels because like I said, we've seen many times where companies put all their eggs in one basket, even Facebook recently, or Apple, two major changes, companies that were making hundreds of millions of dollars, saw massive hits to their revenue because Apple locked down the ability to get information on the person that was using the phone and Facebook locked down localized advertising made it much more difficult to target somebody.
[00:20:53] I know companies that were making tens of millions of dollars just basically drop shipping stuff off Facebook and that their businesses are in a real crisis as they figure out, what's the new normal, we had a system that was working amazing, but now, because we can't target people as narrowly, our cost of advertising doubles.
[00:21:08] If our cost of advertising doubles, we can't afford to sell our product anymore because now our margin's gone. So never getting too comfortable when you're in the gravy train scene. It's awesome when you find it and you find that niche and you can just exploit it and keep it going, but never getting too comfortable with that because in an instant it could change, right?
[00:21:25] These are all privately held company, these are all companies that change their rules on a dime. I've always believed that in business, you've really got to have diversification in a lot of different areas.
[00:21:34] Certainly in marketing, if all your customers come through Facebook, go hire somebody to figure out, paid search and make sure that you're putting a bunch of money into SEO and content marketing, and make sure that you're thinking about offline forms of advertising.
[00:21:45] Is there a way to make some of that efficient for you so that if somebody changes something it's not a hundred percent of your customer base, itâs much smaller percentage of it and gives you time to retool. In the real estate world, it's the equivalent of, do you have one rental house or if it's vacant, it's killing you or do you have a hundred rental [00:22:00] houses or a rental house in an apartment building and a commercial office space.
[00:22:03] Now, when any of them are vacant, you have some time and cashflow from the other things to address the situation, same as true in business for marketing, you've got to have diversity in your sources of leads and your sources of traffic and customers.
[00:22:14] Joey Myers: I love it, Jeremy. I appreciate your time and your advice on this.
[00:22:17] I'm sure there's some nuggets in there that will help other real estate companies and things like that. Before I let you go, just talk a little bit about some of the websites, if there are offers, anything like how, where people can find you.
Where can people find you Jeremy?
[00:22:27] Jeremy Brandt: Yeah. I'm out on social media, Jeremy Brandt Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, all that kind of stuff, twitter. The main companies that we have are we buy houses.com, which is a real estate investing brand license, similar, maybe to a franchise that some people have seen, but we're not quite as tight as a franchise is.
[00:22:41] Where we help really experience real estate investors grow their business with a national brand. The other companies that are kind of sister companies are called 1- 800 cash offer. Which you might see on national TV. We do most of our national TV advertising into the 1- 800 cash offer brand cash offer.com and fast home offer. Those are the lead generation business.
[00:22:59] We don't do branding for our clients. We sell leads on a pay per lead basis. If an investor is in any city in the United States and wants to buy more houses, they can join our program and for a flat price per lead fee they'll connect with motivated home sellers in their local market. Within one or two seconds of them contacting us. We've spent a lot of time and money on software and building our platform.
[00:23:19] We built everything in house to handle lead management, lead routing lead distribution. Like I said, I think we're probably one of the largest in the country that do leads for real estate investors, work with All the major companies in the country, realtor.com those types of folks and always happy to talk to people in real estate or talk to people in the entrepreneurial world, I've started several event companies, sold some companies and it's just always fun to talk business.
[00:23:38] Joey Myers: Very cool. Yeah. I was going to say this conversation took a lot of different turns and stuff that I didn't expect, but it was good. We've got some marketing stuff, got some business stuff, got some real estate stuff. I really appreciate your time, Jeremy, just stay on with me here as we stop the recording here.
